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Old 11-03-2018, 09:05 PM
  #106
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I don't think I've ever heard of it. Or if I have it's not something I've really paid attention to.
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Old 11-04-2018, 12:23 PM
  #107
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Is anyone else listening to the Still Dead ATS podcast?
No, I'm not into Podcasts.

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Oh, I'm excited to check out your rec list
At least a few are fics YOU turned me onto hehe.

One, I sadly had to remove because Angel's Oasis migrated and it seems to have disappeared off the face of the C/A fic-verse. It didn't migrate with AO and I know I saw it on GOTeamCA but it was gone from there as well when I went to check while I was replacing all my AO links.

At least it was just the one.
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Old 11-06-2018, 08:15 AM
  #108
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What fic was it you had to remove?
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Old 11-06-2018, 12:29 PM
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It's called 'Sleeping with Tigers' by Becjane.
Cordelia has been suffering from insomnia and night terrors since Vocah and won't touch drugs so Angel decides to share her bed to help her sleep despite being aware of the temptation he was welcoming.
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Old 11-06-2018, 04:12 PM
  #110
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The Angel Rewatch, Angel Rewatch*3.02 “That Vision Thing”*(4/?)
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Old 11-06-2018, 08:08 PM
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It's called 'Sleeping with Tigers' by Becjane.
Cordelia has been suffering from insomnia and night terrors since Vocah and won't touch drugs so Angel decides to share her bed to help her sleep despite being aware of the temptation he was welcoming.
Is this it?
http://angelsoasisfanfictionarchive...ng-with-tigers
It says it is by Califi.

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The Angel Rewatch, Angel Rewatch*3.02 “That Vision Thing”*(4/?)
I love how much Protective-Angel we got in that episode.

But I always hate seeing Cordy in pain. It's doubly heartbreaking when you re-watch and know that she knows she's already dying there and has been hiding it. 'I tried to be brave. I'm scared all the time.'
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Old 11-06-2018, 09:03 PM
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Is this it?
http://angelsoasisfanfictionarchive...ng-with-tigers
It says it is by Califi.
That's the one, apologies for remembering the wrong author though I didn't at the time. I checked again under Califi but while the title is listed there is no hyperlink to the fic.
That's an old AO link, how is that functioning again? I checked most of my old AO links when Lysa announced the domain change (I'm subbed to her personal site which is where AO is now). None of them worked.
Hence my changing them in my rec list.

Well, whatever the deal is since this link is functioning again it's going back on my rec list. Thanx.

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It's doubly heartbreaking when you re-watch and know that she knows she's already dying there and has been hiding it. 'I tried to be brave. I'm scared all the time.'
Mind blown.
"I tried to be brave".
Now I'm wondering how she didn't spill that she was dying in this breakdown?!
'That Vision Thing' is one of the best C/A episodes and a favorite of mine but now that scene just got even more heartbreaking.
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Old 11-06-2018, 10:01 PM
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That's the one, apologies for remembering the wrong author though I didn't at the time. I checked again under Califi but while the title is listed there is no hyperlink to the fic.
That's an old AO link, how is that functioning again? I checked most of my old AO links when Lysa announced the domain change (I'm subbed to her personal site which is where AO is now). None of them worked.
Hence my changing them in my rec list.

Well, whatever the deal is since this link is functioning again it's going back on my rec list. Thanx.
AO didn't even work for me for the longest time. So glad it's finally back up. Bless Lysa.

I feel like re-reading Sleeping With Tigers now.

Quote:
Mind blown.
"I tried to be brave".
Now I'm wondering how she didn't spill that she was dying in this breakdown?!
And how many times she must have gone to the doctor's, terrified and alone, to get a CAT scan, only to find out that her condition was getting worse. And then she showed up at the office and put on her best face for the gang.

I feel like, in a way, a part of her was trying to tell him: "I don't want the visions anymore" but he, of course, couldn't possibly know the full extent of what she was saying.
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Old 11-06-2018, 10:31 PM
  #114
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AO didn't even work for me for the longest time. So glad it's finally back up. Bless Lysa.
I remember you saying that before I cruised it but Lysa moved it recently to her personal site.
It's here now:
http://angelsoasisfanfictionarchive.wordpress.com
Though 'Sleeping with Tigers' is not.
I checked again under Califi and the title is listed but not hyperlinked.

That's why I found it strange that the old links still function. When Lysa announced the move they didn't.

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I feel like re-reading Sleeping With Tigers now.
I'm doing so as well.

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And how many times she must have gone to the doctor's, terrified and alone, to get an MRI, only to find out that her condition was getting worse. And then she showed up at the office and put on her best face for the gang.
NO, STOP! I can't! Why Cordy, Why couldn't you lean on your Angel?!

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I feel like, in a way, a part of her was trying to tell him: "I don't want the visions anymore" but he, of course, couldn't possibly know the full extent of what she was saying.
I believe she did want them even while believing they were the only reason she was important to Angel.
She considered them a part of her even before she fought to keep them in 'Birthday' or she would have jumped at the chance to pass them off on Groo. She wasn't exactly opposed to having sex with him until she found out that it would give him the visions. Considering season 3, if the neanderthal hadn't held a magnifying glass to that fine print I don't doubt she would have had sex with him.

Then IN 'Birthday' if she didn't actually care about the visions she wouldn't have been so focused on Cynthia York, the subject of her latest almost literally mind-blowing vision while she was on her deathbed (possessing Angel to write 171 Oak on the wall, attempting to only agree to go with Skip on the condition that he tell Angel about the vision etc).
One might argue that she was merely refocusing her attention as to not have to think about the fact that she was dying and the fear but if that were true then why did her subconscious lead her to the girl in the AU?
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Old 11-06-2018, 11:24 PM
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I believe she did want them even while believing they were the only reason she was important to Angel.
She considered them a part of her even before she fought to keep them in 'Birthday' or she would have jumped at the chance to pass them off on Groo. She wasn't exactly opposed to having sex with him until she found out that it would give him the visions. Considering season 3, if the neanderthal hadn't held a magnifying glass to that fine print I don't doubt she would have had sex with him.
No, no, she absolutely wanted the visions. I agree. But I meant her "I don't want the visions anymore" was like...idk...a subliminal 'I don't want to die'. A cry for help in such a vulnerable moment? If that makes any sense.

Quote:
That's why I found it strange that the old links still function. When Lysa announced the move they didn't.
I wonder if I should save the fic. The old link might eventually stop working.

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NO, STOP! I can't! Why Cordy, Why couldn't you lean on your Angel?!
Do you think part of her was worried that he would make her give up the visions? Also...do you think he would have taken the choice out of her hands if it was the only way to save her?
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Old 11-06-2018, 11:57 PM
  #116
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No, no, she absolutely wanted the visions. I agree. But I meant her "I don't want the visions anymore" was like...idk...a subliminal 'I don't want to die'. A cry for help in such a vulnerable moment? If that makes any sense.
Ah, indeed it does.
I don't get her reason for being subliminal though or why Dennis wouldn't do everything in his power to tell A.I (i.e wait for her to excuse herself to the bathroom then get out the scans and wave them in Angel's or Wes's faces). This should have been something that transcended his respect for her privacy.

I passionately believed that excluding a post-'Birthday' family meeting in which Cordy revealed her part-demon deal and they got her to spill on why she didn't tell anyone that she was dying, is some of the significant substance the show fell kind of short for lacking.

See this is one of those aspects that fics are a PTB send to remedy.

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I wonder if I should save the fic. The old link might eventually stop working.
It no doubt will and this particular fic is unfortunately nowhere else.

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Do you think part of her was worried that he would make her give up the visions? Also...do you think he would have taken the choice out of her hands if it was the only way to save her?
He did take the choice out of her hands when he went to the conduit to demand that the PTB remove the visions in 'Birthday' while she was powerless to have her say no less.
So yeah, good point. It is a distinct possbility that she considered that.
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Old 11-07-2018, 08:26 AM
  #117
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I don't know if I've read that fic or not. I could have and just forgot. Though either I think I'll read it too when I get a chance.
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Old 11-08-2018, 10:22 PM
  #118
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I don't get her reason for being subliminal though or why Dennis wouldn't do everything in his power to tell A.I (i.e wait for her to excuse herself to the bathroom then get out the scans and wave them in Angel's or Wes's faces). This should have been something that transcended his respect for her privacy.
I can buy Dennis keeping her secret. He was loyal to a fault. He also got to see her when she was away from the AI gang. He would've been there after her first CAT scan. He would've seen her struggles. Maybe she spoke to him about it. Maybe she asked him/told him to keep it a secret and explained her reasons why?

He did eventually give up her secret when Fred and Gunn pressed him/used his love for Cordy.

Quote:
I passionately believed that excluding a post-'Birthday' family meeting in which Cordy revealed her part-demon deal and they got her to spill on why she didn't tell anyone that she was dying, is some of the significant substance the show fell kind of short for lacking.
Absolutely. 100% agree. I remember Provider feeling quite jarring when it first aired because they just coasted over all of that.

But then...with the direction the show took, I'm not surprised they dropped the ball on such an important scene for Cordelia.

Quote:
See this is one of those aspects that fics are a PTB send to remedy.
I also love fic that deals with Cordy learning to trust/forgive Angel for the beige period. I'm not someone who hates that she forgave him in the end of Disharmony, but I like when fic really delves into the ramifications of Angel's actions and takes it's time rebuilding their relationship.

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So yeah, good point. It is a distinct possbility that she considered that.
I also assume that she was doing her own research into the issue and wasn't able to find a solution. Maybe she also didn't want to tell him because she thought her death was inevitable and that telling them would only make them worry/treat her differently.

I also wonder about the timing...Angel had his beige period. She wasn't going to tell him then. Then after he came back...maybe she was too hurt/not ready to share her secret. And then at the end of S2 Buffy dies and Angel leaves AGAIN for 3 months (or however long it was) and even though Buffy comes back maybe Cordy doesn't want to tell him because she didn't want to hurt him even more by telling him he was going to lose his best friend.

She could have also been in denial about her condition.

There are so many reasons and factors that went into her keeping it a secret. We absolutely deserved answers on screen.
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Old 11-09-2018, 12:45 AM
  #119
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I can buy Dennis keeping her secret. He was loyal to a fault. He also got to see her when she was away from the AI gang. He would've been there after her first CAT scan. He would've seen her struggles.
This is precisely the reason I believe he should have reached out to Angel and the gang.

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Maybe she spoke to him about it. Maybe she asked him/told him to keep it a secret and explained her reasons why?
Not an excuse. Her life was on the line and did he consider at all that perhaps Angel and the gang might be able to figure something out that she could not? That they might have connections she didn't (i.e Lorne's contacts). They didn't of course, but Dennis didn't know that.

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He did eventually give up her secret when Fred and Gunn pressed him/used his love for Cordy.
Yeah very nearly too late.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not mad at Dennis but I believe you are right that he held back out of fear of losing her trust, her friendship, which was all he had as an earthbound ghost trapped in his apartment.
I think he realized that when Gunn and Fred told him she was holding on by a thread, that he was wrong and the way to protect that friendship was to protect her not her secret.

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Absolutely. 100% agree. I remember Provider feeling quite jarring when it first aired because they just coasted over all of that.
Indeed, and such is done again in season 5 with the transition from 'You're Welcome' to 'Why We Fight'. Other than Angel appearing to be in a deep brood mode, there was no evidence in 'Why We Fight' that 'You're Welcome' had ever happened.

I also hate that no one, especially after her light bomb manifested in 'The Price' seemed concerned with what demon DNA she'd been given, that she'd let a stranger manipulate her body.

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But then...with the direction the show took, I'm not surprised they dropped the ball on such an important scene for Cordelia.
True, Joss did stop caring about Cordy, seemingly deliberately tore her apart when he got pissed off at Charisma for getting pregnant.


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I also love fic that deals with Cordy learning to trust/forgive Angel for the beige period. I'm not someone who hates that she forgave him in the end of Disharmony, but I like when fic really delves into the ramifications of Angel's actions and takes it's time rebuilding their relationship.
I was referring to fics in which Angel finds out that Cordy is dying sans coma and they talk about it.
Though come to think of it, I only know of a set of two fics that do this and for the life of me, I can't find them or remember the author's name.
All I remember is the name of the first one: Deluge. It's about Cordelia deciding to seduce Angel to experience sex with him before she dies.
The sequel whose name I can't remember then focuses on Dennis making it his mission to tell Angel about Cordelia's dying state.

Fics that have Angel earn Cordelia's forgiveness for his beige period are also great, I'm working on one myself, though mine has a cheese factor.
I'm in the minority that does NOT hate the clothes as well but to be honest I did feel it was cheap in that it unobligated them to confront the issue and understand each other's perspectives and feelings.

Chelle's 'When Good Spells Go Bad', in which AtS season 3 Angel and BtVS season 3 Angel are exchanged through time, implies that this happened with a sublime piece of AtS!Cordy dialogue in which she points out the difference between the two Angels (apart from Buffy) using the beige period. How it made him a stronger and more devoted man because it taught him the importance of family, friendship, and trust. That without that experience among others, the BtVS!Angel wasn't capable of leading their life, that he hadn't earned it.


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I also wonder about the timing...Angel had his beige period. She wasn't going to tell him then. Then after he came back...maybe she was too hurt/not ready to share her secret. And then at the end of S2 Buffy dies and Angel leaves AGAIN for 3 months (or however long it was) and even though Buffy comes back maybe Cordy doesn't want to tell him because she didn't want to hurt him even more by telling him he was going to lose his best friend.
Good point. The beige period, Buffy's death and then Connor's birth all interfered having commandeered Angel's priorities.

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She could have also been in denial about her condition.
The CAT scans and MRIs argue otherwise.
1. She wouldn't have gotten them if she were in denial
2. Once they were done they were pretty impossible to deny.

Though honestly, the following from 'Birthday' can be taken either way:

Wes: "Fred studied Cordy's latest CAT scans. The news isn't good. The tests show widespread neuro-electrical deterioration."
Cordy: "That's just a fancy way of saying..."
Angel: "She's dying."
Cordy after a beat: "I think I like the fancy way better."


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There are so many reasons and factors that went into her keeping it a secret. We absolutely deserved answers on screen.
Amen.
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Last edited by Ashes Fall; 11-09-2018 at 01:44 AM
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Old 11-10-2018, 06:19 PM
  #120
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not mad at Dennis but I believe you are right that he held back out of fear of losing her trust, her friendship, which was all he had as an earthbound ghost trapped in his apartment.
I think he realized that when Gunn and Fred told him she was holding on by a thread, that he was wrong and the way to protect that friendship was to protect her not her secret.
If we want to get dark with it, maybe a part of him wanted her to die so they could be together in the afterlife. There's no proof of that, of course, but I thought I'd mention it for conversations sake.

Now you're making me think about poor Dennis. Did the Fang Gang tell him when Cordelia died? Does he think she just left? Is there someone new living in her apartment?

Quote:
Indeed, and such is done again in season 5 with the transition from 'You're Welcome' to 'Why We Fight'. Other than Angel appearing to be in a deep brood mode, there was no evidence in 'Why We Fight' that 'You're Welcome' had ever happened.
The writers seemed to want to pretend that Cordelia had never existed in S5 and gave us as few mentions as possible. Don't remind me about how her death was ignored yet everyone and their mother acted like the world was ending when it was Fred...

Quote:
I also hate that no one, especially after her light bomb manifested in 'The Price' seemed concerned with what demon DNA she'd been given, that she'd let a stranger manipulate her body.
The untapped potential of part-demon Cordy is criminal. The show could have gone 500 different and better ways. Something more original than 'Main Character turns evil' which is a trope Joss overused by the end of both series.

Quote:
All I remember is the name of the first one: Deluge. It's about Cordelia deciding to seduce Angel to experience sex with him before she dies.
The sequel whose name I can't remember then focuses on Dennis making it his mission to tell Angel about Cordelia's dying state.
I think I've read these but I want to re-read them now.

Quote:
Fics that have Angel earn Cordelia's forgiveness for his beige period are also great, I'm working on one myself, though mine has a cheese factor.
You are writing a fic? YAY! The world needs more CA fic. Have you posted it anywhere yet?

Quote:
I'm in the minority that does NOT hate the clothes as well but to be honest I did feel it was cheap in that it unobligated them to confront the issue and understand each other's perspectives and feelings.
Yeah. I just wish we got both. The new clothes scene and then in the next episode ALSO a scene with them talking about it together.

Quote:
Chelle's 'When Good Spells Go Bad', in which AtS season 3 Angel and BtVS season 3 Angel are exchanged through time, implies that this happened with a sublime piece of AtS!Cordy dialogue in which she points out the difference between the two Angels (apart from Buffy) using the beige period. How it made him a stronger and more devoted man because it taught him the importance of family, friendship, and trust. That without that experience among others, the BtVS!Angel wasn't capable of leading their life, that he hadn't earned it.
I love this fic. I wish our ship had more time travel fic. Especially with S3 Angel somehow ending back in Sunnydale.
Quote:
Wes: "Fred studied Cordy's latest CAT scans. The news isn't good. The tests show widespread neuro-electrical deterioration."
Cordy: "That's just a fancy way of saying..."
Angel: "She's dying."
Cordy after a beat: "I think I like the fancy way better."
That's the moment I was thinking of re:denial. Obviously she knew she was dying..but maybe a small part of her was holding onto hope that TPTB wouldn't let their visions kill her as she was needed for their mission.
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